R9 Issues and possible remedies

[PursuitSS]

First of all let me state that I believe that the R9 is a D@mn good weapon considering how low the production still is. I think a few "fixes" would make it a heck of a lot better:

Grip screws: Larger and Torx head

Magazine: If you look at the back of the floorplate you will see that it is stamped like this..../__\   if you install a different floorplate that allows the magazine to seat deeper it seems to improve functioning. Also, the follower on all of my magazines are developing a "dent" in the middle of the top of the groove.

Slide: If there continues to be slide cracking problems a change to S7 steel would possibly be a good fix. S7 is used on the Barrett Light Fifty bolt and carrier and was used on the Semmerling .45

I can't complain on my R9 as it works fine with Winchester 115 gr. Silvertips, but recommendations by most "experts" you shouldn't count on a gun until it will fire 150-200 rounds without a malfunction.

Comments?

PursuitSS

[riffraff]

Is S7 a carbon steel?  If so it may not work for the slide.  Stainless Steel is heavier than Carbon Steel and I think the R9 needs all the mass it can get in the slide.

Mike

[PursuitSS]

Is S7 a carbon steel?  If so it may not work for the slide.  Stainless Steel is heavier than Carbon Steel and I think the R9 needs all the mass it can get in the slide.

Mike

Yes, S7 is a carbon steel but on a piece the size of a R9 slide the weight difference would be insignificant.

AISI S7
Category       Steel
Class       Tool steel
Type       Shock-resisting steel
Designations        United States: ASTM A681 , UNS T41907

Composition
Element       Weight %
C        0.45-0.55
Mn        0.20-0.80
Si        0.20-1.00
Cr        3.00-3.50
Mo        1.30-1.80
V        0.20-0.30(a)
Cu        0.25
P        0.03
S        0.03

Mechanical Properties
Properties       Conditions
T (°C)      Treatment
Density (×1000 kg/m3)       7.76       25       
Poisson's Ratio       0.27-0.30       25       
Elastic Modulus (GPa)       190-210       25       
Tensile Strength (Mpa)       640        25        annealed  more
Yield Strength (Mpa)       380
Elongation (%)       25
Reduction in Area (%)       55
Hardness (HRB)       95        25        annealed more
Impact Strength (J)
(Charpy unnotched)       244        25        fan cooled from 940°C, single tempered at 205°C  more

Thermal Properties
Properties       Conditions
T (°C)      Treatment
Thermal Expansion (10-6/ºC)       12.6        20-200 more

I don't know which stainless alloy Rohrbaugh is using for the slide (I suspect 17-4 ph) but this stuff is TOUGH!!!!

PursuitSS

[BillinPittsburgh]

Based on the malfuctions I experienced with my first shooting session with non-recommended ammo, I think stronger magazine springs would result in a huge increase in reliability.

[CMA]

BillinPittsburgh;

Based on my brief time with the pups, I would certainly agree with you sir. I think a plus 5% or plus 10% extra power magazine spring would really benefit the R9. Does anyone know if someone makes them? I checked Wolff, my normal source for gun springs and they do not list any springs for Rohrbaughs.

Best regards.

[riffraff]

I thought the mag springs were kind of weak too but if this were a cure for problem R9's I am certain that this would have been addressed by the R bros long before now.

When someone finally gets a spring that works and is stiffer for some testing and evaluation please post the info. but I am going to say that a stronger spring will not help for the reason I mentioned above.

Mike

[capt.koolaid]

EXCELLENT POST! The only thing Id add is to stop using that !@#$%^&* lint atracting grease and go with a decent oil! Since Wolff makes the springs im suprised they dont offer extra power versions. Maybe somethin in the agreement prohibits? Ill say this much: If bros R knew how one particular Wolff rep badmouthed the pup im pretty sure theyd outsource the springs elsewhere!

[PursuitSS]

Since Wolff makes the springs im suprised they dont offer extra power versions.

I thought I saw a post that stated Wolff does not manufacture any of the springs used in the R9.

PursuitSS

[capt.koolaid]

watching the video with Karl shooting the R-9 he states "Wolff springs throughout".....Anybody know if thats changed?

[BillinPittsburgh]

My reason for believing that stronger magazine springs are necessary is that just about every malfunction I had resulted in the bullet that should have gone into the chamber stuck partially in the magazine at a high upward angle, and in one case vertical.  This is the symptom of the slide moving forward before the magazine spring can push the next round in front of the slide.

Additionally, using non-recommended but standard pressure 9mm 135 gr. Federal Personal Defense, the rounds chambered every single time when I manually cycled the slide.  With sufficient time for the magazine spring to do its job before the slide moves forward, even non-recommended ammo will feed.  This tells me that Rohrbaugh has the potential to really decrease the ammo sensitivity and increase reliability with this change.

Based on what I saw at the range, I will guess at least 10% extra power is needed.

I checked the Wolff website, and didn't see any Rohrbaugh springs at all.

Something like this shouldn't be "extra power" on a gun costing $1,100.  It should be "standard."

[rooster]

I also thought that I read somewhere that Wolf made the springs for the pup but when I called and tried to get some the Wolf rep. told me that they did not make any of the springs for the r9.  I then called the factory, and Maria hooked me up with some, however I don't know how she got them as Iwas told no one had had ever requested spare mag springs before. I also think the reliability would greatly increase if there were stronger springs.  There is alot happenning in a short amount of time, that round definitley needs to get up there in a hurry.  Oh yea, I even called checkmate and that was a joke.  Maria was the only one who called me back.

[tracker]

I was disassembling the magazine today and had the same
thought before I read these posts that the magazine spring
felt very weak, both relatively and absolutely compared to
other weapons' springs.
I have been using IMI springs[ chrome silicon ] in several of
my Glocks and 1911s and like them a lot. I wish we could put
Mark from ISI and Karl together. There is some controversy
over the advantage of these springs over the conventional
piano wire type but I believe anecdotally that they will hold
a set longer.  

[tracker]

http://www.ismi-gunsprings.com/

Above is the referenced website; David Tubb of renowned
AR-15 marksmanship fame also uses these springs. The
springs that I have used have all been recoil springs. I think
Wolff has also started making the chrome silicon alloy springs.

[BillinPittsburgh]

After additional testing with recommended ammo (Winchester Silvertip), I remain convinced that the magazine springs are too weak, and also have come to believe that the feed lips are too short, releasing the cartridge too early.

I believe that lengthening the feed lips by a small amount (maybe 1/8 inch, possibly a bit less) and increasing the strength of the magazine spring by at least 10%, will solve a lot of reliability issues with this gun.

[jarcher]

I would be interested to see the results of taking high speed video of the R9 in action, so we could see what is happening when it malfunctions.