Author Topic: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park  (Read 13716 times)

Joe_from_NY

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Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« on: May 23, 2011, 02:22:00 AM »
Well, my trusty back pocket companion had to take a trip back to the factory. I went to the range last week so I could put a few rounds through my R9 Stealth with the new black magazine I ordered before I carried it. (I wouldn’t trust a new magazine to carry without first running a few through it just to be sure.)  My plan for the day was to go through one 50 round box of Gold Dots, and sprinkle in a few WWB’s since they are cheaper, even though a bit dirtier.  I loaded the new mag up with 124 grain Gold Dots and mixed WWB and Gold Dots in my original magazine and commenced making some noise. Within a few magazines worth, I experienced a total of three rounds that failed to fire with one pull of the trigger. With two of these rounds, a second trigger pull was required to fire the round. Upon encountering the third round failure to fire, I ejected the live Gold Dot round in order to examine it. It is the one on the right in the following photo (note the primer is barely scratched):




When I got the first two failures, I thought it was an anomaly, so I just pulled the trigger and they both fired fine on the second pull.  I didn’t think to set the brass aside to examine and they went into the pile around my feet. I did find one spent brass later that had a primer that looked a bit different than the other ones that fired. This might have been one that needed a second hit with the firing pin. See the one on the left in the photo below. Note the strange appearance of the primer, it almost looks as if you took a grinder to it to knock down the high spots. I can’t be sure it was one of the original two light strikes, but it sure does look different than any of the others I recovered that day:





Here is a sampling of a few others shot that day for comparison:




The grip screws were kept tight throughout the shooting time. The gun was cleaned after  last shooting it. In all, I fired about fifty Gold-Dots and about twenty five Winchester rounds the day of the problem.  The light strikes occurred within the first few magazines and happened while firing under normal conditions, punching gun out and firing double tap or three quick consecutive rounds with no slow dragged out trigger pulls for slow target shooting.

Has anyone had light hits under similar conditions with their R9?  I called the factory, and Ms. Marie asked a few questions, and then sent me directions on how to ship it back to them. I will, of course, post my experience with their anticipated excellent customer service.  



« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 02:22:22 AM by Joe_from_NY »

Offline kjtrains

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 10:28:32 AM »
Never have experienced that problem, Joe.  Sounds like a weak spring somewhere; just a thought.  Sorry you're having the problem.   Rohrbaugh will take care it, for sure.
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Offline gbelleh

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 01:23:45 PM »
I had a couple light strikes with my first R9, but only with Winchester Silvertips.  I just figured they had hard primers.  I don't use Silvertips because of that.
gbelleh

Offline tracker

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2011, 06:03:30 PM »
If all of the light strikes came from the same box/lot no. it could be the ammo. I've seen that happen with Hornady but not Gold Dot. Nothing would surprise me with the hard primers that have invaded U.S. ammo supplies lately. You did the right thing to send it back and they can isolate the problem source.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 06:35:23 PM by tracker »

Offline coyote

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2011, 06:37:38 PM »
i had many of the same kind'a looking primers i posted pixs of here:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Gunsmith;action=display;num=1304725630








.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 09:24:10 PM by coyote »
if it isn't a rohrbaugh, its too darn big

Offline Reinz

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2011, 09:32:39 PM »
Man that sucks.

Sometimes the price that is paid for such an excellant trigger pull - though not to be tolerated what so ever.
Would definitely give up some sweet trigger smoothness or light pull for reliability.
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Joe_from_NY

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2011, 10:03:09 PM »
Quote
i had many of the same kind'a looking primers i posted pixs of here:

http://www.rohrbaughforum.com/YaBB.cgi?board=Gunsmith;action=display;num=1304725630.

yeah, it sure does look like the one in the left in my photo. Did you ever figure what the cause was? The brand on mine was Gold Dots.

Joe_from_NY

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2011, 10:09:37 PM »
Quote
Man that sucks.

Sometimes the price that is paid for such an excellant trigger pull - though not to be tolerated what so ever.
Would definitely give up some sweet trigger smoothness or light pull for reliability.

"Reliability" is indeed the key word. Even though these guns have the restrike capability, you do not want to have to use it. Here is an excerpt from my letter to the factory that I sent back with the gun. It expresses the basic outlook I have on the situation:

I don’t have to tell you the feeling in your gut when you pull the trigger and hear a click instead of a bang. It is a feeling of being vulnerable, of no longer being protected and well prepared. That extra second is all a bad guy needs to get off that first shot.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 10:11:05 PM by Joe_from_NY »

Offline tracker

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2011, 10:10:58 PM »
Joe,

There is a lot of history on the "fried egg" primer flat/light strikes. This first came up with Hornady Critical Defense Ammo with S&B primers that are quite hard. The combination of small 9mm handguns and hard primers can be a problem. Full size 9 mm handguns such as the Glock 17 and 19 do not tend to have the same issues, at least to my knowledge.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2011, 10:19:57 PM by tracker »

Offline yankee2500

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2011, 10:50:19 PM »
tracker, I agree with you 100%, thats a pretty rare problem in a full size 9mm.
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Offline coyote

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 12:54:36 PM »
Quote

yeah, it sure does look like the one in the left in my photo. Did you ever figure what the cause was? The brand on mine was Gold Dots.

everything i know is in that tread. since then, i bought a bucket-load of gold dots but haven't tried them yet. hope i don't run into the same issue again....
if it isn't a rohrbaugh, its too darn big

Joe_from_NY

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 01:55:29 AM »
I wonder if the 115 grain Gold Dots have different primers than the 124 grain. The last time at the range i shot a 50 round box of the 115 gr. and did not have any malfunctions.

Offline tracker

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 05:52:46 PM »
Joe,

I just talked to an ATK rep about CCI primers and she said if you would forward photos of your Gold Dot light strikes she would take a look at them. They still make their own primers.
She also said that the Gold Dot primer seating depth tolerance is: flush to -.010" or .005 + or - .005".
linda.olin@atk.com
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 10:16:29 PM by tracker »

Joe_from_NY

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2011, 02:04:01 AM »
I only have the photos i posted here, on the other ones i took, the primer was way out of focus and couldn't be clearly observed.

Offline Reinz

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Re: Light primer hits, now it's back at Deer Park
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2011, 07:50:42 AM »
So Gold Dots have CCI primers?

CCI primers are known to have the hardest primers in the industry.

Federals being the softest and Winchester and Remington in between.

FWIW
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