Author Topic: My new AR pistol  (Read 981 times)

Offline MikeInTexas

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My new AR pistol
« on: October 31, 2018, 04:38:05 PM »
Just finished this new AR assembly and thought you guys might like to see it.



Here is what is in it.

Spikes Tactical 'Crusader' lower, purchased stripped.

Fostech Echo AR-II binary fire control group.

Anti-walk hammer and trigger pins.  Cheap ones I already had, will probably get some decent ones next time at the parts store.

SBTactical SBA3 adjustable pistol brace.

Left or Right single point sling compatible back plate.

Magpul grip and handguards.

10.5 inch stainless steel barrel chambered in .223 Wylde.

Carbine length gas system.

Nickel Boron coated M-16 bolt carrier group.

KAK Flash Can.

Non-adjustable gas block with flip up front sight.

Generic flip up rear peep sight.

With sights flipped up, they co-witness in the bottom 1/3 of the optic.

Aimpoint PRO 1 power Red Dot sight.


Got a great deal on the binary trigger and felt I needed to build a range toy around it (or post election vehicle defense device  ::)  ).  For those that are not familiar with binary triggers, they have 3 modes.  First is Safe, second is Semi and third is binary.  First two pretty self explanatory, third is where it fires on the pull of the trigger and again on the release of the trigger.  These are still 100% legal in Texas and most other states.  However legislation in the less free states have targeted them along with bump fire stocks.  In the picture below you can see the internal fire control group.  The hammer is in the fallen position, and that part in rear acts like an auto sear.  It does not allow the hammer to fall until the bolt is in battery.  Kinda complicated parts.  Lucky I did not make any of the numerous mistakes you can make when assembling it and have to go to youtube to watch videos on how to fix what seems to be common issues.

The SBTactical brace is adjustable with 5 stops.  Collapsed the overall length of the handgun is about 28 inches, fully extended it goes out to about 30.5 inches. If I get the flash can pinned and welded on, I can put a vertical foregrip on it since it's over the magical 26 inch mark.  Probably will live without doing that for now.

I could save an inch or more if I went with a regular flash hider, however I like the look of the flash can and it does direct a lot of the noise forward making shooting next to it a bit quieter on the other shooters.

The Aimpoint is just the right height if I decide to shoot it traditional rifle style instead of as a pistol.



After putting this new firearm next to my SBR I am just shaking my head.  I paid $200 and waited 9 months and 15 days for BATFE permission to make that SBR and in the space of two days I assembled something almost identical in size and function legally without the stamp.  Our firearm laws are a mess...........

If the weather clears I will hit the range tomorrow or Friday to check it out.  I will post up my thoughts on how it works out and what my impressions are of the binary trigger. (If they don't boot me from the range for testing its rate of fire.)



« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 11:23:05 PM by MikeInTexas »

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 04:39:44 PM »
2nd picture.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 04:44:12 PM by MikeInTexas »

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 04:40:19 PM »
3rd picture.

Offline PhilZ

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 05:50:40 PM »
That is what I would do if I wanted an SBR. No stamp and with concealed permit can carry loaded in the car. 

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 07:46:02 PM »
Fortunately PhilZ, I fall under Texas Motorist Protection Act, here you can carry loaded in the car without a permit be it a rifle, shotgun or pistol (must be concealed).





Offline PhilZ

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 08:08:32 PM »
Fortunately PhilZ, I fall under Texas Motorist Protection Act, here you can carry loaded in the car without a permit be it a rifle, shotgun or pistol (must be concealed).

Before I got my CPL, I had to have unloaded magazines going to the range.  Loaded mags in the presence of the host gun was considered an illegal loaded gun.  One of the reasons I originally got my CPL was so I could load up all my mags before going to the range. 

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 10:14:39 PM »
Before I got my CPL, I had to have unloaded magazines going to the range.  Loaded mags in the presence of the host gun was considered an illegal loaded gun.  One of the reasons I originally got my CPL was so I could load up all my mags before going to the range.

Like I posted above, our gun laws are a mess.  What state do you live in?

Offline PhilZ

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 07:46:24 PM »
Before I got my CPL, I had to have unloaded magazines going to the range.  Loaded mags in the presence of the host gun was considered an illegal loaded gun.  One of the reasons I originally got my CPL was so I could load up all my mags before going to the range.

Like I posted above, our gun laws are a mess.  What state do you live in?

Michigan.  Our legislature voted to do away with pistol-free-zones for CPL holders, but that same week Sandyhook happened, so the Governor vetoed the bill.  Poor timing.  We can't carry in schools, casinos, bars, or stadiums with more than 2500 seats. 

Offline Griff

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 10:00:25 PM »
Looking forward to reading your take on the binary trigger.
Thanks for sharing...nice build!
‘Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.‘
- C. S. Lewis

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 10:46:49 AM »
Well Griff, it did not go well.  Bad day at the range and for the rest of the evening..............

Started with some light primer strikes that did not fire the round, initially blamed it on some old steel cased bargain bin ammo I dug up out of the bottom of the box.  Only getting about 2 of 3 to go off.  Could not get the binary system to work reliably when working the system very slowly (1 second between shots) and never in fast as I can mode.  So I switched to some nice, clean, brass cased, IWI, green tip ammo, problems persisted. Even changed magazines, no reason to expect that to do anything, but tried anyway.

While I was extremely disappointed in the trigger system, I liked the size and handling of the weapon in general.  Got it dialed in for 50 yards.  Did not sand bag it down and try to check group sizes as I was figuring that I would be reworking (replacing) the trigger soon.

Got home and placed it on the counter and decided not to mess with it.  Went to play cards to blow off steam.  That went just about as well as I got busted out just after the first break.  (Had a pair of Kings and got all my chips in against a pair of Queens, then he hit the third queen on the river, F-me. Too late to rebuy back in.)

Then on the way home, I get pulled over as I made my last turn onto my street.  She had been following me for a while and said I turned too wide on a previous turn.  Really?   Wide turn onto a 2 lane road that immediately loses the right lane becoming a single lane road, are you serious?  Well she approached close, me with windows down, car off, keys on dashboard, hands palm up and DL, LTC and insurance in plain sight.  Get this explained to me before she goes back and runs her stuff on me.  Comes back with a warning ticket (whew) and asks if I had any questions.  Well yes I do, I ask 'Was this a DUI check stop?'  That kinda stunned her, after a nervous laugh she told me to have a good night smiling as she walks back to her cruiser.  Glad the bad beat did not drive me to drink a beer at the bar before driving home, LOL.

So now I am wide awake and not going to sleep anytime soon, whether I want to or not, and decided to go youtube surfing on the Fostech trigger.  Found a company video that talks about the issue I had.  Seems it might be caused by a light buffer.  So I will be looking for a 'H2' weight buffer to hopefully solve the issues.

I will then go back to the range and let you guys know if that fixes the problems or if you can find a slightly used binary trigger system at the bottom of the Texas City ship channel. :-\


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Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2018, 04:49:12 PM »
Found an H2 buffer nearby and went to the range.  Got there just before a cease fire and was able to get the new buffer installed.

Put up a pair of targets and was ready to go when the line went hot. 

The heavy buffer solved the light strike issues, did not have a single round fail to fire when the hammer dropped.  Shot great in semi mode, even with the poor quality steel cased stuff.  Moved to better Israeli ammo and tried the binary mode.

Started real slow, fire wait a breath and release to fire the second round.  Went well this way for half dozen rounds, then no hammer fall on the trigger pull.  Did not expect it to fire on release though.  Still had rifle on target, so no safety issues.  It fired that way for another 5 or 6 rounds, pull -->nothing, release-->bang.

Went back to semi, no issues, working as designed.  Back to binary, same problem.

Was loaded up and ready to leave by the next cease fire.

Called Fostech, missed their business hours by 5 minutes.  They closed at 2:00pm local time (4:00 east coast time).  So I am waiting until Monday to talk to a person about this issue.  We will see.

Still like the guns set up, hope to get the trigger righteous.

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 05:00:08 PM »
Talked to Fostech.  Nice woman called me back to day after I left a message this morning.

Seems this issue is sometimes caused by debris at the bottom of the fire control space.  I am going to take the trigger out, blow out the space, blow out the trigger hoping to remove any pieces of gunk, dirt, residue, etc. that does not belong.

Next it seems that if you don't release the trigger fast enough this can happen.  Range opens Wednesday, I will try that to see if it get reliable.

If none of this works I will probably ship the trigger in the lower to them for an inspection and repair.

Not real happy with it, seems to be unreliable and prone to small items causing big issues. 

We will see.  Almost to the point of putting a regular trigger in it.......................


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Offline tracker

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2018, 07:18:04 PM »
That is a great looking weapon, Mike. I had not heard of the binary trigger concept until now but other than a gee whiz item I don't see the point of it under normal or self defense purposes. The concept just sounds flukey and subject to malfunction because of the back and forth movement and at the correct timing to make it work. 
The old platitude of "keep it simple" might apply here.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:19:59 PM by tracker »

Offline MikeInTexas

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »
tracker I get that.

I have other weapons that I would resort to before picking this one up in an emergency.

However, I have a strong memory from the early 1980's when I bought my first AR-15.  Had a Mini-14 that lived up to it's reputation of inaccuracy in those days, sold it and scratched together all I could (while in College) to get a AR-15.  Took a while but I finally got to where I could get a new Colt Sporter II.  Could not easily come up with the extra $400 (extra gun cost + stamp) I needed to get a 'real' one.  No worries right, I can get one later.  Well the Hughes amendment passed and I went into the military.  By the time I got out, real ones were not within $400 of regular ARs anymore.  As 11 series, I got plenty of time firing full auto arms, but could not afford the one I wanted for myself.  Budget seemed to always be able to get those things that were half the price of the M-16, so never got one.

Got a chance to get this trigger and jumped on it.  A lot of states are banning them.  I am not going to get caught wanting something I could have had and passed on again.  If for some reason Texas legislates against them, or more likely federal regulations come down.  I will register it if I can, or do something else with it.  We will see.

I have been thinking of getting a replacement for the FAL that i normally carry in the SUV.  This little gun might be it, if I can rely on it.  Confident it will do a good job if I put a regular fire control group in it, but really want this binary thing to work.  Not that I would ever expect to seriously use it in binary mode, save that for fun in the woods.

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Offline tracker

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Re: My new AR pistol
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2018, 08:54:33 PM »
That being the case I think that I would remove the binary trigger and put it away until the gub'mnt bans them.