Author Topic: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run  (Read 1864 times)

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« on: March 25, 2019, 06:32:30 PM »
All,

I just bought a R9 via Gunbroker from original owner.  Pistol is like new and seller stated it had maybe 50 rounds run through it.  Condition of pistol suggests he was being honest.  Seller said he remembered it running fine for him but also stated he can't remember the last time he fired or what specific ammo he was using.  Serial number R3912.

Before buying I did a lot of research and am aware these pistols can be picky with ammo.  I've tried 3 different brands and it won't run on any.

I tried the following, all in 124 grain FMJ with brass casings:
-  Remington
-  Winchester
-  Federal/American Eagle

I ran 48 rounds (8 clips) of each brand using the 2 different OEM clips that I received with the gun.  I didn't get a single clip to run without jamming on ejection through 148 rounds.  Most clips jammed twice in 6 rounds and several jammed 3 times.  Very frustrating and I'm not sure what to do.  The pistol was clean and lubricated prior to shooting.  I loaded 6 rounds in the clips every time and experienced constant failure to eject and rechamber.  After a failure to cycle event the slide would be in the "open/back" position being held open by the next round in the clip with the spent round still partially “straight” in the barrel or slightly ejected but in a cocked/crooked position slightly in the barrel.  The spent casings remained in the gun in pretty much the same partially ejected position every time it failed to cycle.

Pistol is worthless to me in the current state as I don't trust it as a carry gun.  I was wondering if anybody had a suggestion(s).  I was thinking of replacing the recoil spring as it now has reached the 200 round suggested replacement threshold.  It's due for replacement now if it had the claimed ~50 rounds run through it from the original owner plus the 144 rounds I ran through it.  PLEASE note it never ran since I received it with only the advertised 50 rounds through it.  I'm pretty frustrated as I was VERY excited spoiling myself on what I consider to be an expensive pistol.  At this point I'll have more luck throwing it at a target than expecting it to shoot.....

Rick

P.S.  Where are replacement springs available, Williams Gun Sights?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 06:44:40 PM by rikhek »

Offline ECR

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1292
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2019, 07:32:51 PM »
Hello Rick and Welcome aboard the forum,

I would give Williams a call and see if they can help you out. They have been very good in trying to make existing R9 owners happy and get their pistols functioning. With a R3900 series R9, you are in the middle of production runs and it should really be ok. I'm sure it is something minor, so I would phone them and see how things go. The only thing I would check is remove the base plate of each magazine and count the coils. Original early guns had 10 coils, then went to 13 coils, which were too strong. We came up with 12 coils as being the sweet spot for tension in the mags.

Good Luck in getting her going properly and please keep us informed. We're here to help with what we can.

Regards,

Eric Rohrbaugh
Makers of the NRA Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and receiver of an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 09:26:40 PM »
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?

Rick
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 09:37:32 PM by rikhek »

Offline PhilZ

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 423
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 08:13:56 AM »
Before sending it to William's, I would try two things.  If your brother's R9 runs fine, I would borrow his magazine to see if it solves the problem.  Also, I would ask him to shoot yours to see if maybe your grip is to blame.  You might be gripping too high on the frame, causing your thumb or hand to ride the slide.  It could also be caused by a not tight enough grip resulting in a "limp-wrist" failure to extract.  If your brother shoots your gun without issue, you need to work on your grip.

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 09:38:52 AM »
Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute.  FWIW, I did my homework prior to purchasing and reading this forum was well aware of the potential for cycling issues with a limp wrist shooting style.  I consciously ensured my grip was tight with a ridgid, straight arm to prevent this phenomena.  Additionally, I'm positive i wasn't contacting the slide while shooting.

Borrowing my brother's mags would be a logical next step, however, I'm in Tulsa and he's in Harrisburg.  Too far to make this happen without mailing back and forth.  Not impossible but a bit difficult/inconvenient.  I called him and had him
 disassemble his clips and count his coils.  FWIW, his mags all have 12 coil springs in them.

I'm thinking of installing the "extra" 10 coil springs in the clips and see what happens.

Rick
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 11:16:08 AM by rikhek »

Offline backupr9

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2019, 11:26:14 AM »
It sounds to me like the slide is being retarded somehow.  The first thing I would do is check the firing pin retainer.  If you can move it from side to side with a small screwdriver it will be touching the slide and changing the timing.  I had that problem years ago and Eric fixed it.  I posted pics at that time, but have no idea where the thread is now.  Would also suggest going to Speer Gold Dot in 124 as that seems to be the “go to” round for most of us, and you might even try 147 since some individual pistols seem to like that better.  Lube the rails well.  Good luck!
"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." 
Thomas Jefferson

Endur Fortis

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2019, 11:43:26 AM »
Backup,

Thanks.  I'll check tonight.  Only problem is I've no idea what the firing pin retainer looks like or its exact location.  I think I have the parts schematic and will be able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.

Rick

Offline Thomasconnor

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2019, 05:10:16 PM »
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?


Rick

It sounds like he was wrestling with the same problem.

From your description it seems the problem is (not) ejecting the spent cases?

I'm not sure how this could be related to the magazine?...Tom
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 08:12:34 AM by Thomasconnor »

Offline backupr9

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 09:48:16 AM »
Backup,

Thanks.  I'll check tonight.  Only problem is I've no idea what the firing pin retainer looks like or its exact location.  I think I have the parts schematic and will be able to figure out what it is I'm looking for.

Rick

Remove the slide, hold it with the barrel facing away from you and look at the back.  There is a small almost square piece of metal right in front of you.  Take a small screwdriver, dental pick, or even a strong toothpick and try to move it from side to side.  If it moves more than a tiny fraction, that could be your problem.
"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." 
Thomas Jefferson

Endur Fortis

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2019, 03:35:01 PM »
Eric,

Thanks for the response. My brother owns several R9’s and introduced me to your pistols. I was hoping you’d comment as my brother informed me you were active on the forum.

I just disassembled the clips and one has 13 coils and the other 12. I counted correctly and the 13 is noticeably longer. While shooting I thought one clip was working better than the other, however, neither clip allowed 6 rounds to be fired without jamming.

Also, I just looked in the “extras” bag that the original owner gave me with the pistol. There are two 10 coil mag springs in the bag. Interesting and makes me curious on the “significance” of the two 10 coil springs and the back story.

Any suggestions on my clip situation?


Rick

It sounds like he was wrestling with the same problem.

From your description it seems the problem is (not) ejecting the spent cases?

I'm not sure how this could be related to the magazine?...Tom

Correct. Every time it’s “jammed” the spent cartridge has failed to eject.

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 02:55:16 PM »
Oh well, pistol is on it's way to Williams Gun Sights for repair  :'(.  I was surprised lifetime warranty is only provided to original owner.  I'm going to have to pay to have it fixed and the shipping fees.  I'll post what they find out is wrong with it.

Offline rikhek

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • New Member
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 02:56:24 PM »
It sounds to me like the slide is being retarded somehow.  The first thing I would do is check the firing pin retainer.  If you can move it from side to side with a small screwdriver it will be touching the slide and changing the timing.  I had that problem years ago and Eric fixed it.  I posted pics at that time, but have no idea where the thread is now.  Would also suggest going to Speer Gold Dot in 124 as that seems to be the “go to” round for most of us, and you might even try 147 since some individual pistols seem to like that better.  Lube the rails well.  Good luck!

I couldn't detect ANY movement of the firing pin retainer.

Offline backupr9

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2019, 04:04:30 PM »
Gosh, if it is not the ammo, the grip, the magazine, the springs, or the FP retainer, then I am stumped unless it is the extractor/ejector.  Back to Williams is the smart move.  Good luck!
"Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." 
Thomas Jefferson

Endur Fortis

Offline MikeInTexas

  • Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
  • Hello from Texas
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2019, 08:25:07 PM »
Rick you got a lot of us interested in your pistol.  Please keep us posted about what Williams does and how this works out.

Good Luck

Offline ECR

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1292
Re: HELP PLEASE - New Owner - Pistol Won't Run
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2019, 09:58:29 PM »
Sorry Rick, I've been dealing with yet another family member passing and forgot to follow up here.

The 10 coil mag springs were initially what we had in the mag. They were too light and gave us issues. We went to the 13 coil jobs and they were too tight. I ended up cutting one coil off them and tried the 12 coil springs and they seemed to work the best and had the most reliable pressure, so those became the standard setup. Glad to hear the gun is on it's way to Williams. They have been doing outstanding work on our little pistols, so please let us know how they handled it.

Again, sorry for my delay in answering back here. Good Luck and let's hope they can get her working properly again for you.

Regards,

Eric R.
Makers of the NRA Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and receiver of an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.