Author Topic: Gun fired without trigger pulled  (Read 326 times)

Offline dddonkey

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Forum Contributor
Gun fired without trigger pulled
« on: August 14, 2020, 05:26:05 PM »
OK long story short, I was putting my weapon on the shelf after running to the store. While placing the weapon on the shelf it fell to the ground and landed muzzle first, straight up and down and discharged a round. I have never had an accidental discharged ever! What really gets me is the weapon was holstered before, during, and after it discharged. The only thing I can think of it discharging was landing vertical. The trigger area was and is clear of any obstruction and the holster covers the trigger completely.

 The gun has maybe 250 rounds through it and the current recoils spring only has 50-60 rounds. The gun is carried lots (everyday) and cleaned monthly. I bought the gun from Tom Watson new when I returned home from Afghanistan. I am very concerned and not sure if I can trust the weapon any more, as I fall something due to spine issues from the military. What concerns me it the weapon went off, while holstered. Thank God my wife and kids where not hurt, only the floor.

Any ideas how to fix this, or should I move on to a new carry option..................... I have carried the R9 almost daily since late 2014. 

Thanks for any and all help.

Offline MRC

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2020, 06:27:35 PM »

I got to be somewhat of an email friend with Arne Boberg of Boberg Arms.

When he was developing his pistol, he bought a variety of small DAO, hammer fired pistols to get some ideas on different design features.  He had trouble with his pistol and the drop test.  He looked at a lot of pistols to see how others were doing it.

One thing he said was the R9 he had would not pass the test you just described.

How to fix it is a juggling act with firing pin spring, firing pin weight, hammer weight, mainspring weight, and trying to maintain a descent trigger pull.

Offline dddonkey

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
  • Forum Contributor
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2020, 06:55:15 PM »
Thanks for the reply, It was a fluke it fell, and an even bigger fluke it fell strait vertical on the muzzle. Still scared the snot out of me......

Offline MikeInTexas

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
  • Hello from Texas
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2020, 07:20:45 PM »
Glad no one was injured.

I think this kind of incident is possible with a lot of firearms. I'm glad that the specific sort of parameters that cause this type of discharge don't happen often.

Offline MRC

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2020, 07:51:12 PM »
On their 1911's Colt went to a firing pin block to meet the test in their Series 80 pistols.  To the chagrin of many of us target shooters it affected the trigger so on most target guns you end up paying someone to dismantle it.

On the new pistols Colt is making and calling them by the old Series 70 they have gone to a titanium firing pin and tuned it with the firing pin spring to make the drop test supposedly.

If you look at the hammer on your R9 you will see that it is recessed into slide to eliminate this problem if you drop it the other end first.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 07:53:38 PM by MRC »

Offline PursuitSS

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2020, 10:54:04 PM »
MANY different guns will discharge if dropped muzzle down on a hard surface.
NRA Endowment Member
Moderator - 80% Forum AR15.com

Offline ECR

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 08:05:43 AM »
PM sent 8/26
Makers of the NRA Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and receiver of an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.

Offline PsychoSword

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2020, 06:48:28 AM »
To go a little of topic here, the series 80 safety does not really affect the trigger pull. Not as much as most other systems do. I have a 1984 series 80 and the trigger is very light and breaks like a glass rod.

Any gun without a firing pin safety should be handled carefully to ensure it does not get dropped on the muzzle if the chamber is loaded. Thanks to the OP for posting this thread as a remind to myself and others. I have a few guns like this without firing pin safeties, such as my AMT .45 Backup that would probably not pass the test either. It's just a quirk of the design that we all have to be careful about.

Offline MikeInTexas

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
  • Hello from Texas
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2020, 10:15:33 AM »
PsychoSword, the series 80 is pretty much hated by gunsmiths because of the issues getting a decent trigger pull.  I am glad you got lucky with yours.  For those of us less fortunate there are a number of options to try and fix the issue.

When I deleted the troublesome series 80 parts I went this route.  Shimed it.  Trigger pull was noticeably improved.
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/frame-parts/frame-hardware/fillers/tj-s-1911-series-80-to-series-70-conversion-shims--prod13121.aspx

However I have been looking at this to maybe return some of the features of the original design.
https://www.strikeindustries.com/catalog/product/view/id/871/s/1911-grip-actuated-lower-sear-lever/

The good news is that I still have contact with the gunsmith that did the work for me on the gun originally in 1984.  Back then your choices in a 1911 were limited and usually the smith did his work before you shot it for the first time.  He ordered it for me, fixed most of the factory defects, then I got to go shoot my first real handgun that I purchased myself.

But to get back on topic, it's not drop safe.  However I don't trust any gun to be 100% safe when dropped.

.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 10:36:47 AM by MikeInTexas »

Offline PsychoSword

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2020, 04:22:28 AM »
I guess to me the only trigger safety I ever saw where I thought they actually got it right was the Cold series 80 system. But that's just me.

Offline PsychoSword

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 232
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2020, 05:12:42 AM »
Crap, I was chastised by someone else for that same comment. I understand the love of Series 70. Maybe I'm wrong? My experience doesn't tell me so.

Offline MikeInTexas

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 548
  • Hello from Texas
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2020, 10:24:35 AM »
Go with your gut feeling and don't worry about the others comments.  We all have different experiences and that doesn't make them wrong.  Back in the day when competition was scarce for Colt, their quality didn't need to be as good as in a market with dozens of good choices like today.  They produced some good ones like you got, and some less so like many others got.  Luck of the draw.

I would not take the drop safety off a carry gun (unlike a magazine safety).  Sometimes I carry an early Kimber, it's internals have been stoned and tweaked, but all the safety parts are in working order as designed.  IIRC it has a Swartz style firing pin block safety, (a pre-WW2 Colt invention) which uses the grip safety to deactivate.


.

Offline ECR

  • Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 07:02:34 PM »
I just had a very nice conversation with dddonkey.  Very positive fellow and a definite Patriot! 
We'll be getting his R9 back into service too. 

God Bless you DD and thank you for your service.

Eric C. Rohrbaugh
Makers of the NRA Shooting Illustrated: "Handgun of the Year for 2005" and receiver of an NRA Golden Bullseye Award.

Offline PursuitSS

  • Expert
  • ***
  • Posts: 175
Re: Gun fired without trigger pulled
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2020, 03:22:18 PM »
You can take a Colt Series 70, install a Titanium firing pin and a Wolff extra strength firing pin spring and I defy you to drop it from any height and set it off.
NRA Endowment Member
Moderator - 80% Forum AR15.com